Authored by: peter on Wednesday, May 21 2008 @ 03:27 PM CST

just for clarification...John is a guest, not a co-host, just as all the other individuals invited to appear are guests....

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Authored by: marina on Wednesday, May 21 2008 @ 10:14 PM CST

Pardon my oversight. John is an invited guest. But let me just add that whatever the case, the Miracle Channel Association still has the responsibility to ensure that ethical fund-raising guidelines do not go unheeded, regardless of whether the individual(s) be an invited guest or a host on the program.

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Authored by: processthis on Thursday, May 22 2008 @ 11:06 PM CST

Yes, Mr Laframboise comes as a guest, however, what is even more dreadful, in my opinion, is the very bad timing: a fund-raising campaign mixes with news of an outpouring. THAT is a scary thing. I still wonder at the lack of godly fear at TMC. It appears to me that they support a "culture" of a different kingdom.

BTW, TMC is airing the Lakeland meetings this coming Saturday night.

andre

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Authored by: marina on Sunday, May 25 2008 @ 12:52 PM CST

You nailed it Andre. A Revival/outpouring of this type is always good for the busine$$ of the host church, the prophets and all the other ministries that want to ride the third wave and milk it for all it's worth.  It is a necessary evil for this aberration of the church, that rears it's head from time to time, in order for the Word/Faith pentecostalism to continue to exist. People who do not know their God, need to see or feel something and when that something manifests via the so-called "prophet of God", faith in both man and God is restored for a while again.

I share your wonder at the lack of godly fear that TMC has and am amazed at it's haste to embrace the purported next new move of God before being sure it is truly a move of God. Many will follow the pied piper of counterfeit Christianity because of TMC's failure to caution viewers of Jesus words, "Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.  Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?" And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness." (Matthew 21-23|) It would seem that even the words of Jesus are not enough to stop and seek wisdom and discernment. Jesus' words just don't fit in with the intents and purpose of man- made, man-orchestrated revivals. Were He here in body, He would probably be rejected also as one who "quenched the spirit", not unlike His demonstration of temple cleansing; the ultimate party pooper.  But that is what we, as His Body in the earth and contenders for the true faith, have been put here to do. 

The world is a different place today and there are many challenges we are facing that are hard to make sense of. Just as worldy people are looking for the fast buck, easy life or the free ride, many in this generation calling themselves Christians, emulate the worldly by looking for a god of blessing and promise to make their short time on earth more comfortable and easier. A god who will freely administer the anesthetic that will make all the pain in their lives go away. And they find this god at revivals such as Lakewood. A god who will keep them so entranced, so into themselves, they will be blind to the suffering of others and will fail obey the second greatest commandment, to love their neighbor.

It really doesn't take much to spark a revival in troubled times. But in the end, what it is will be proven by the fruit it has produced, and, sadly, as Tim said, the lives that have been crushed by deception. Though buckets of cash are manifesting, these "outpourings" do not help the homeless and starving in Burma. They don't alleviate the suffering of those ravaged by earthquakes in China. The violence in Africa has not been subdued by the Holy Spirit revival fires in America. I could go on, but what does this tell you? Does God really care so much more for His Chidren in developed nations than those I just mentioned? Right now their is more sufferring than you or I can imagine, and do you think that all He wants to do is make us laugh and fall over stupid??!! The spirit of "me" is what these gatherings are all about. Selfishness has been justified by the church - the ultimate heresy!

Hank, Hanegraaff summed up what fuels these counterfeit revivals: "We’re in desperate times, and we’ve got desperate people. And they’re looking for a quick fix,” Hanegraaff said in an interview from Charlotte, N.C. “But all they’re getting is false hope.”

Is is desperation that also draws the revival fires to Miracle Channel studios?  

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Authored by: Howie51 on Thursday, May 29 2008 @ 03:16 PM CST

Be thankful none of us are in charge because in my power hungry thinking process there would not be a single TV evangelist on the air by the end of the day. Make that by the end of the hour. I suppose prophecy must take it's course and there must come a falling away first, but there again it depends on how you understand prophecy. Job once bitterly complained to God, and I sometimes feel a lot like he must have felt at the time, except I'm not covered in boils and belly aching about my plight. Most of us who support the work of this site would appreciate a few lightning bolts, a few folks having their tongues cleave to the roofs of their mouths - or even worse. Maybe that would put a little fear into the ranks - I doubt it, knowing and having observed human nature at it's worst. I tremble in fear of a mighty, and terrible living God who is still on the throne in spite of appearances - or lack of appearance.

Sincerely

Howie

 

 

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Authored by: tim on Monday, May 26 2008 @ 04:26 PM CST

Well, here we are, it's the 26th of May after 4:00 and it's started, or should I say it's really flowing... Just exactly what it is that's flowing, I don't know, but I have my suspicions already simply based on the opening comments of Fred and Val Bennett.

It looks like it's going to be another interesting week... 

Sigh...

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Authored by: tim on Tuesday, May 27 2008 @ 07:50 PM CST

Is it a fundraiser or is it the Todd Bentley show?

Based on everything I have seen and heard today, it's all about the Lakeland revival. Clip after clip of Todd pushing people over and spitting all over them as he shakes his head uncontrollably while speaking with his newly gleaned American accent, it's simply disturbing.

Earlier in the program, Klassen couldn't resist in saying how much he wants the revival here and The Miracle Channel is committed to bringing it to Canada.

I had hope for TMC up until recently but I have to be honest, it's completely faded and I could pretty much care less what happens there any more. It's hard to believe how gullible people are and I'm getting sick and tired of trying to protect them from their own stupidity. If people want to believe that black is white and white is black, what can one do to change that? Blindness isn't even an excuse when it comes to this, it's just pure stubbornness and greed. Then people get screwed by these crooks and blame it on the devil because it's more convenient than admitting they were duped and should have known better.

I must agree with the famous quote, "There's a sucker born every minute".

God help us all....

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Authored by: marina on Tuesday, May 27 2008 @ 11:35 PM CST

I have to agree with Tim (and not just because I'm his wife!). I am sure that his last comment should bring smiles of victory to TMC executives and all the proponents of this deluded organization. Being the "troubler of Israel"  has not come without a cost and I am beginning to wonder if it is all in vain. I am tired of sounding alarm after alarm after alarm only to land on deaf ears. We have done almost all we can do to bring truth and light to those blinded by the false prophets of TMC and outright charlatans. I am tired of them perverting Jesus' words for their own gain, making a mockery of His coming, dying and resurrection. Tired of them pursuing more influence and power in society in the name of their "god" with their carnal perception of the Kingdom. Tired of them leading so many astray in a false "salvation" and a false sense of security with their sloppy agape gospel.
  
The church is a mess down here. This surely can not be God's will. I am beginning to wonder if God has even looked down here lately. It's just so bad what's been going on in His Name - the trampling underfoot of the Son of God and the insulting of the Spirit of Grace. And I wonder how He can stand it. How can He stand to see the disappointment and heartbreak and rejection on the faces of people who come to the healing revivals/crusades, expecting to be touched by Him, only to leave unchanged?  How can He watch while people are taught to believe that it is God's will that they be wealthy and prosperous if only they sow seed money into the preacher's ministry, only to be left worse off after giving the little they had?  Why is He allowing this evil to continue to ravage the children in His Name? When will the Lord of the vineyard return to punish the wicked husbandmen again?

I have also come to the conclusion that if God does not do something about what is going on down here, then He might as well resurrect all the dead Pharisees and give them a big apology for destroying their temple, their religion and their race. The evil done in His Name by the Pharisees was nothing compared to what the religious leaders are doing today. In other words, I say with all sincerity that the God of the bible must be a hypocrite if He does not intervene and bring correction or even destruction to a wayward system called by His Name. Yes, I said HYPOCRITE! As a friend once said, what these guys are doing today in the church, make the Pharisees look like school boys! The Father did not seem to have any problem doling out punishment and bringing correction in the Old Testament so that all would see and fear and even in the New Testament, Ananias got turfed on the spot for telling a little white lie! And yet these guys today practically get away with murder and God remains completely silent.

Looking at the condition of the church today, it is easy to understand why there is so little FEAR OF GOD. There hasn't been much for the wolves to fear...at least in this life.

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Authored by: The Last Spike on Friday, May 30 2008 @ 10:52 AM CST

Whoa!  Hold on to the fort, don't be discouraged.  The demoralizing effect this site has had on MC employees, Victory Church members and the DGC has been great indeed.  Living in the area I have occasion to meet and speak with many from those groups who have left.  Every discussion I have has them eluding to at least a portion of insight into those organizations they could've only gotten from this site.  Some people I've spoken to have said they are soon to quit their jobs at the MC.  As well, there is one church in the area that is realizing a great influx of these bruised Christians.  As the congregation's numbers swell it has not gone unnoticed by the powers that be or the Victory/Dominion/MC ilk.   Recently I have seen some very influential Victory members appearing at this church.  One can only surmise that their presence is ostensibly to learn which ex-member is now going there.  Most recently, I saw Senior Pastor at the Gate and Ray Block's Son-In-Law Scott Bartlett (with his wife and children) at this other church.  Curious thing was Scott wearing dark sun glasses.  Whats up with that?!

I am convinced it only appears on the surface (because of it's media reach) that the beast is strong.  However, I am pretty certain it is still hobbled by a thorn in its paw.

Good choice of quote Tim; wasn't it P.T. Barnum who is credited with coining the phrase  "There is a sucker born every minute."   Another showman trained at the exploitation of the audience.

Spike (in the harbour)

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Authored by: processthis on Sunday, June 01 2008 @ 01:29 PM CST

Tim, Marina, et al,

A few comments I'd like to make:

God has bound Himself by His word into a New Covenant with us. Since we all are priests and prophets, then we all should be under the same punishment for we all have misrepresented Him at some point, and I doubt any of us always quickly saw the error of our ways to repent. It was all a gift of "sight" from the Lord.

Although I understand what you mean, Marina, I wouldn't call God a hypocrite if He leaves the abusers/wolves/deceived/deceivers alone. If He does, then that's His JUDGMENT on them. Nothing worst could happen to those who prefer to silence the voices of exhortation (and that's also what 'prophecy' is all about) to continue living in their own delusion, heaping more and more condemnation, unable to hear any truth save their own. There is a good reason why God would abandon someone to their own gods, as their passion is not for the Son of God but for the Sin of Man: power and glory. I wouldn't diminish the horror of it all. It would be a mistake to confuse God's silence for an approval, or laxness.

Young believers are usually trusting of authorities. Someone said that we get the leaders we deserve. There is not much one can do except rip to pieces the very gospel these people have been lead to. And then, we may get nowhere, since that's also what's been happening which has created so many denominations. I believe that it is a matter of the person's heart. MANY are called and FEW are chosen. NARROW is the way of salvation, and BROAD is the way of destruction.

There is a need for the Refiner's fire to come and clean up. But will He come the way we, humans, would want Him to? Messiah didn't come the way those who genuinely believed in His coming imagined He would. Jesus clearly said to let the angels take care of the sorting out, at the end of the age. Pure religion, James says, is to take care of the widows and orphans and keep ourselves clean from the wickedness of the world. Jesus says not to resist the evil man. That's the upside-down kingdom, as someone called it.

We are called to care for those who suffer abuse and atrocities at the hand of leaders and the unrighteous systems they build. We are never told to attack leaders directly. I still have a hard time with this one, but in fact, all the Scriptures say about it is to honor authorities, pray for those who persecute us, repay evil with good. That takes God 's involvement in our daily lives, in the death process of our self and the clothing of Christ. I'm still wanting, but I am starting to see His wisdom in this. And even if I didn't, I'm still called to obedience...

My advice/opinion/feeling/exhortation is that if the Lord is lifting the burden from your shoulders, then follow that. He knows the price you paid, and will continue to pay. That's why I encourage you to let anger vanish as it would only serve to discredit your mission. We are called to go and do something, not expect results and judge the results, but leave them to the Lord.

I think by now if the many leaders of TMC could not give room to the words of rebuke so biblically clear and solidly given, then it is obvious that they do not have eyes to see, therefore who can blame them? Our only hope is to continue to pray for eyes and ears to be opened. It's going to get darker, friends. Jesus says: "...false christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect - if that were possible." 

Let's keep the faith, do the work of the calling on our lives, continue to support those who struggle with the "something wrong I can't.put my finger on..." and help bring instruction to those who seek.

Maybe the best thing that could ever happen to TMC is to have free reigns to run into the wall of their own demise, so that hopefully souls could be saved from the rubbles. We can only hope, we can't make it happen in our own strength, otherwise, we wouldn't be any better than those we condemn, would we! :)  Or maybe God would visit them in the night, and repentance would spring forth? That would be ideal.

Many are leaving now, and it could be edifying to hear what they have to say on why they stayed so long.

Blessings,

andre

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Authored by: processthis on Sunday, June 01 2008 @ 01:36 PM CST

ADDENDUM:

"We are never told to attack leaders directly."

That's not entirely true. Prophets are sent to leaders and kings. And in that context, the Scriptures show us that a good portion (90%?) of those whom the prophets are sent to, NEVER pay attention to the warnings and run to their own demise, often bringing their whole family into it. And those who do receive the word of correction and repent, even the most wicked ones, receive grace and mercy from God. There's a lesson there...

andre

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Authored by: processthis on Monday, June 02 2008 @ 03:53 AM CST

I also want to add that all the work you, Tim and Marina, have invested in this site, and in research, interaction with the CRTC and wounded ones, the time and energy spent studying and articulating, questioning and  challenging, praying and pleading,  are an enduring testimony. It has provided a point of anchor for many who otherwise wouldn't have had a place to process their thoughts and concerns. And I, for one, am grateful, just as I'm sure many others are. Please do not mistake my previous posts as rebukes, they were not meant that way. I thought maybe there would be encouragement in them...

blessings,

andre

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